Teaching Through Laughter: A New Bridge to Climate Conversations with Esteban Gast

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;23;16

Carrie Albright, NAAEE

Thanks for tuning into The World We Want: The NAAEE Podcast. Today's episode was recorded in person at NAAEE's 53rd Annual Conference in early November 2024.

 

00;00;23;18 - 00;00;55;22

Gerry Ellis, Host

Welcome to The World We Want: The NAAEE Podcast. Hi. I'm your host, Gerry Ellis. You know, we generally start this podcast off with, “So what is the world you want?” So many people I've talked to feel something we all need right now are bridges. Bridges between us to help solve our shared challenges. And perhaps one of the most invaluable tools for bridge building, regardless of language, the issues, even our differences, is humor.

 

00;00;55;25 - 00;01;15;16

Gerry Ellis, Host

A smile warming to a grin erupting into laughter. It's magical. It has a way of bringing us together like nothing else. Joining us on this episode of The World We Want is award winning Colombian American comedian, writer, climate educator and activist Esteban Gast.

 

00;01;15;18 - 00;01;34;00

Esteban Gast

We're reaching people a little bit where they're at. And that's what comedians do, right? So if I'm, if I'm doing comedy for Lincoln, Nebraska, if I feel too partisan or I have an agenda or I feel a little too, you know, like I'm in LA. If they're like, you're in LA, coastal. I'm done, right?

 

00;01;34;00 - 00;01;52;01

Esteban Gast

I lose them for the whole night and I'm up there for an hour, so it's awkward. And I think on the other way, I think in Lincoln, Nebraska, you can go in with something that they like, right? And be like, oh, there's some hypocrisy happening in the climate movement. And they're like, you know, they kind of they're like, yeah, these little tree huggers.

 

00;01;52;01 - 00;02;08;08

Esteban Gast

And then you're like, if you flip it around, we're framing it as individual—but corporations are responsible for this and we need to–And they've actually shifted the blame. Isn't that interesting? So these we feel guilty and though and you're like oh my gosh. And you're like attaching right, they go oh this is different. Oh wow.

 

00;02;08;11 - 00;02;48;21

Gerry Ellis, Host

As a teacher and educator, Esteban discovered humor power to connect long ago, especially on those subjects that aren't so easy to talk about, like climate change. Esteban is currently a comedian in residence at energy transition nonprofit Generation 180, where he helped build the climate comedy cohort and the Climate Cultura programs. He and his work has been featured in the LA times, NPR, Science Friday and ABC's Nightline, and most recently, Esteban has joined his family as a director on its board.

 

00;02;48;24 - 00;03;19;01

Gerry Ellis, Host

On the World We Want podcast, we talked to some of the great thinkers, creators, educators and conservationists, as well as some of the brightest new voices driving change around the world. And what do they share in common? Environmental education. One of the most powerful resources for creating a more just and sustainable world. It inspires, it enlightens, it influences attitudes, and most importantly, it drives us to become guardians of this planet, caretakers of our communities.

 

00;03;19;04 - 00;03;46;27

Gerry Ellis, Host

And it leads us into action. If you're new to the podcast or to environmental education, you should know that the World We Want podcast is a production of NAAEE, the North American Association for Environmental Education, and now I am so delighted to welcome and to spend some time laughing with Esteban Gast. Esteban, welcome to The World We Want podcast.

 

00;03;46;27 - 00;03;56;23

Gerry Ellis, Host

We have been laughing already for hours. And what better way to start a podcast with a comedian.

 

00;03;56;26 - 00;04;06;18

Esteban Gast

I know well, I had to live up to my brand. I said if we start and we're not laughing, then what will what will this turn into? No. It's so—I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

 

00;04;06;20 - 00;04;11;13

Gerry Ellis, Host

Hey, among your other talents, you're also a podcast host, so why don't you get us started?

 

00;04;11;16 - 00;04;35;15

Esteban Gast

I'm a comedian, writer, others things, right, storyteller. And then a few years ago, I started telling many more jokes. And like, speaking, I always thought it was a separate part of who I was. If that meant right, like, my background's in education. And actually some climate activism and things, like I ran this study abroad program that was sustainability focused.

 

00;04;35;15 - 00;04;56;19

Esteban Gast

So very much actually in the world of NAAEE, like I was in it. And then I started doing entertainment stuff and in comedy and I was like, you know what? This has always been a dream. Let me see if I can do it. And moved to L.A., did all the things, and it started going well, you know, well enough for me to kind of do it mostly full time or full time.

 

00;04;56;21 - 00;05;14;06

Esteban Gast

And I was like, oh, okay, well, when I'm not on stage or writing, I'll go and volunteer for a climate org or I'll just be really involved in Sunrise Movement, you know, at the time And I just thought, oh, and then that's great. And then I'm like doing the things I'm passionate about, and then I'm doing my career.

 

00;05;14;08 - 00;05;20;15

Esteban Gast

And it was which it feels very silly, but maybe people are segmented, or feel like it needs to be?

 

00;05;20;15 - 00;05;36;06

Gerry Ellis, Host

Well, you know, we were listening to somebody today talking about going to other place as your joy maybe that's, you know, I don't know, being on stage and doing comedy is the joy part that kind of keeps because climate change is like this, okay? It's this giant thing weighing down on top of everybody, and it's so easy to get depressed.

 

00;05;36;06 - 00;05;48;14

Gerry Ellis, Host

And everybody walks away going like, they were all doomed. And we're all going to die. Yeah. And yeah, to bring a bit of humor into it is because it is just facts. It's what we do with them. Right?

 

00;05;48;14 - 00;06;09;01

Esteban Gast

Totally. It's also, I think for a while I was like, oh man, can I bring this into comedy? Then I was like, the greatest comedy—If you look at the comedy legends, they've always talked about serious things. If you look at Carlin, if you talk about Dick Gregory, who's a Black comedian during a segregation, was like before African-Americans had the right to vote,

 

00;06;09;01 - 00;06;30;28

Esteban Gast

He was doing comedy, to Black and white rooms. And like, literally people were like, oh my gosh, I've never thought about how ridiculous some, you know, and laughably absurd. Something like the inequality of segregation is if that makes sense, right, you point to these systems and you go, this is absurd.

 

00;06;30;28 - 00;06;54;15

Esteban Gast

There's such inconsistencies here. And comedians look around and kind of, you're wired to look for these inconsistencies or these hypocrisies or these things that just feel very silly that we're all accepting. And I think comedy at its best has always done that. Not only can I speak about this, I should. This would make the comedy better. So that was sort of part one of this, of that awakening, let's say.

 

00;06;54;22 - 00;07;10;14

Esteban Gast

And then part two is I felt a little bit alone in that. And I encouraged my friends who also had a foot in the climate space. I was like, oh, we should all right, climate jokes together do these things. And it just felt it felt like everyone was writing the same jokes and, oh, we're all going to die, ha ha ha. 

 

00;07;11;21 - 00;07;34;01

Esteban Gast

And then from there, this was three years ago helped co-create with actually with American University. They've got the Center for Media and Social Impact and this amazing nonprofit that I do most of my activism through called Generation 180. They're based in Virginia. They're amazing. With them, we created this thing called the Climate Comedy Cohort that helps work with professional comedians.

 

00;07;34;01 - 00;07;51;06

Esteban Gast

These are high level comedians, right? They're like writing on TV. They're touring, and we talk to them and we help them. And it's beautiful peer to peer learning. It's community. It's like the way that, you know, good learning and education should be in community building, and movement building should be we talk to them about how to write climate jokes.

 

00;07;51;06 - 00;08;09;15

Esteban Gast

So we did that. The first year and we, had a deal with–this is what's really beautiful. It's exciting–we had a deal with Comedy Central. So Comedy Central distributed some of our stuff, so people who might not be in these conversation lines is getting a glimpse, right. And building bridges to get a little bit more involved.

 

00;08;09;15 - 00;08;28;15

Esteban Gast

So we're going we're reaching people a little bit where they're at. And that's what comedians do. Right? So for, you know, I travel and do comedy. So I go and I'm not big enough where I have too many of my own fans. So I will go and it'll just say like “Comedy Night Tonight” and it'll be like at a club or something like that.

 

00;08;28;15 - 00;08;54;09

Esteban Gast

Right? So I've 70 to 100 people will come in and then this will be in anywhere in the U.S., right. So it'll be like in Lincoln, Nebraska. And I get to then do comedy to them and like have a little bit of that message and still be very funny, but still like, be building those bridges and sharing myth busting and sharing some of those things in that own like particular unique lens of comedy.

 

00;08;54;11 - 00;09;19;02

Gerry Ellis, Host

Yeah. I'm curious, do you ever like when you guys would get together to write or you write, you know, on your own? Do you ever write stuff about climate change and about issues like that and you say, wow, that would maybe zings a bit more than I planned for it? Yeah. And a little nervousness like you wrote it, you stare at it, you go and nah, I’m not sure

 

00;09;19;02 - 00;09;21;14

Gerry Ellis, Host

How I deliver that I am.

 

00;09;21;16 - 00;09;41;19

Esteban Gast

You know, it's all audience. So sometimes I will–I'm very thankful–sometimes a climate organization will be like, hey, can you come in and do a, you know, like a show? So a few weeks ago, I was at Rewiring America, who I love so dearly. They're a great organization and they, like, brought me in for their it was their full staff okay.

 

00;09;41;19 - 00;10;02;25

Esteban Gast

So hundred and they're like can you do comedy for us? And I think in there I'm like I'm like, oh, the jokes are going to be totally different. If I'm if I'm doing comedy for Lincoln, Nebraska, if I feel too partisan or I have an agenda or I feel a little too, you know, I'm in LA,. If they're like, you're in LA coastal, I'm done.

 

00;10;02;25 - 00;10;23;14

Esteban Gast

Right? Like I lose them for the whole night and I'm up there for an hour. So it's awkward, you know, like, if I lose them, it's awkward. And I think on the other way, you know, if I’m to climate folks, I have to be like, hey, to me this is the biggest issue of our time, you know. Like, I'm on your side.

 

00;10;23;21 - 00;10;43;18

Esteban Gast

I'm poking fun lovingly. So I think it's a funny balance. It totally depends on audience because I think I think in Lincoln, Nebraska, you can go in with something that they like, right? And be like, oh, there's some hypocrisy happening in the climate movement. And they're like, yeah, these little tree huggers.

 

00;10;43;18 - 00;11;01;03

Esteban Gast

And then you're like, if you flip it around and you're like, and that's because corporations are doing, you know, these individual we're framing it as individual. But corporations are responsible for this. And we need to and they've actually shifted the blame. Isn't that interesting. So these we feel guilty and though and you're like oh my gosh. And you're like attaching, right.

 

00;11;01;03 - 00;11;05;01

Esteban Gast

And they go, oh this is different. Oh wow. This is a different take hopefully.

 

00;11;05;03 - 00;11;21;21

Gerry Ellis, Host

Does your does your comedian brain. Say okay I think this joke will work. And I think it's a way to make them think in a different way. But I've got to ease them into me, into them. So I'm going to use this joke.

 

00;11;21;23 - 00;11;48;11

Esteban Gast

100% and then it starts. You like think of themes. So if I go, okay, well if the theme if I'm getting into, this joke, maybe I'm talking about like guilt and talking about feeling guilty. I grew up Catholic, so, you know, I got guilt. I'm like a pro-level guilt. You know, like, I walk around, so much shame. I'm crushing it, you know what I mean?

 

00;11;48;17 - 00;12;07;07

Esteban Gast

And then I go, oh, and then I also want to live this good life. But sometimes I get thirsty and I buy a water bottle, you know? And then I know, I know, was my thirst? This is not going to decompose for 4000 years, you know. But I was thirsty, but what do I do? And then, you know, and then people are like, okay.

 

00;12;07;07 - 00;12;28;27

Esteban Gast

And then I go, but what's wild is that's the only option? we have things that decompose. We have. I mean, even now there's brands that are like paper. You can get water in receptacles that don't take thousands, that won't outlive our children's children’s children’s children, you know, like that's an option.

 

00;12;28;28 - 00;12;59;12

Esteban Gast

And we just I don't do that as a society. And then I feel guilty. I'm on the plane thirsty because I didn't buy the water. You know, just like in the bathroom splashing water in my mouth because I'm so… right. So that's been like a 15, 20 minute lead in where I go, Isn't that wild that we have the tools to be better and we're not—and isn't that interesting? Shouldn't we all be right now wondering why aren't we doing that?

 

00;12;59;15 - 00;13;18;04

Esteban Gast

Right? And you're saying this in a room that if you were to start off and say, hey, the solutions are there, but it's a lack of political will and an obsession with profit or whatever that people would be like, all right, get out of here, you little lefty hippie. But you are in that way, and you've sort of put yourself there in that experience, and you've built that

 

00;13;18;04 - 00;13;47;11

Esteban Gast

So they go, okay, I trust, I trust you. And this actually makes sense. It actually makes sense that you're walking around saying, oh my gosh, you know, this is a thing that you like funny and process and hopefully people relate to, right? If they grew up in a certain way or if they can resonate with something, they're like, oh yeah, I also maybe I don't feel guilty about that because there's a I haven't thought about the climate in that way, but I do feel guilty about some things and that is interesting.

 

00;13;47;11 - 00;14;09;11

Esteban Gast

It is interesting that whatever we had that we could have switched to an electric car, you know, like if you the hook up an electric car or whatever that everything could have been a little different. That's interesting. And if we know that now, how do we make sure that in the future we're not going, you know, things could have just been better or whatever.

 

00;14;09;11 - 00;14;32;01

Esteban Gast

So I think there's a ton of thought in that, of like, going there. That's why something like the Climate Comedy Cohort, which is a like—technically, I'm an educator, facilitator, sort of creative director there. But I think that just is so helpful for everyone because the comedians in it got to think about how to write that and how to navigate topics in it.

 

00;14;32;06 - 00;14;34;19

Gerry Ellis, Host

How many people are in the cohort?

 

00;14;34;19 - 00;14;58;08

Esteban Gast

Every year there's been around ten, and this is our third year. And then in addition, just to started this group, I also saw very few Latin Americans and Colombian grew up in Puerto Rico, lived in Panama, bounced around, I love Latin America, and stuff. Very few Latino so created this group, again with Generation 180, co-created with them called Climate Cultura, which is Latin creatives.

 

00;14;58;08 - 00;15;14;24

Esteban Gast

So not just comedians, but, filmmakers, influencers, all that sort. So that that's a separate group that is doing a very similar program. I joke it's like people who are climate curious, is a sweet spot that are like, I want to talk about this, but I don't know how. So yeah.

 

00;15;14;25 - 00;15;29;29

Gerry Ellis, Host

Well, that was actually where I was going with the question was because I thought, okay, do are these people coming from? Are they comedians coming to figure out how to talk about the climate or they climate people trying to find another way to introduce the climate?

 

00;15;29;29 - 00;15;52;29

Esteban Gast

Good question. This is a good question. It's all comedians. So this is an and I think, you know, as we build it out, I would love there to be more offerings for like, hey, are you a climate communicator? Do you work in the climate role? Let's talk about how to use humor. But I think right now, to me, what's really, really interesting is comedians, professional comedians who are —I mean, some of these people are writing for Colbert and for a daily show actually.

 

00;15;53;01 - 00;16;08;17

Esteban Gast

And you think you think you mentioned Jon Stewart. I love Jon Stewart. I think Daily Show is amazing. And I'm also like, they're not talking about climate, you know. If you think how often have you seen a viral piece from them that's talking about climate? So even at that level, there's a little bit of climate education.

 

00;16;08;21 - 00;16;23;09

Esteban Gast

The gap that I just believe, and I think when you talk to these people you see that, is that they don't know how to—Is it funny? It's so serious. And the only time that climate comes up in the news, if you're not really a climate person, is like a natural disaster.

 

00;16;23;11 - 00;16;44;04

Esteban Gast

And I can't, you know, there's truly very little to joke about there. Those are tragedies, right? Like, but unless you're like a climate person, then to me, I'm like, oh my gosh, there's climate news every single day. And some of it is amazing. Some of it is sad and some of it is weird, and some of it is interesting and some of it, you know, there's so much climate news.

 

00;16;44;04 - 00;17;00;20

Esteban Gast

Oh, but of course, if you don't know where to look or it's a little intimidating, some of it is technical, right? I mean, we had really smart people writing for some of these late night shows, whatever being like what it 350 what? What is ppm and you're like, that's such a good point. 

 

00;17;00;20 - 00;17;24;18

Esteban Gast

We had a, one of our first session, someone's like, 1.5°C. And they looked and they're like, Esteban, what's that in Fahrenheit? And I'm like, no, that's a such a good point. You know, I've been saying, we can't cross 1.5 Celsius heating for ten years and never have I been like, yeah, wait, what is that?

 

00;17;24;20 - 00;17;41;06

Esteban Gast

So I think it's really interesting to bring those people in. I also think those people are going—I think it's good that they're not climate people—that are climate cohort because they're going, kind of what we're talking about, right? They're going to the Kansas City, they're going to—I have a friend who's doing comedy in Shreveport, Louisiana this weekend.

 

00;17;41;06 - 00;17;56;00

Esteban Gast

Amazing. I'm so I'm thrilled that they're going to Florida. They're going to do all the things. I mean, yeah, you have friends touring Florida, right? There's six cities you can do in Florida. So if they're doing a little bit of this stuff, then that really helps.

 

00;17;56;00 - 00;18;11;17

Gerry Ellis, Host

I was curious about that because, I mean, I would think you would have to be a comedian because it's kind of like hard to like, oh God, I think I should be funny. Now, if you're not, you know, if you're a climate activist saying, I got to bring humor into my climate discussion, okay, stand in front of the mirror.

 

00;18;11;21 - 00;18;14;09

Gerry Ellis, Host

How do I get funny? Yeah. What does that look like?

 

00;18;14;11 - 00;18;38;03

Esteban Gast

I totally I also think that I think a take away that I would because sometimes people come in, they're like, hey, can you do exactly that? Hey, I'm doing this climate presentation. Can you help make it funnier? And I'm like, sure. And that climate presentation can, can sort of only exist for climate audience or just like be yourself and be authentic and be genuine.

 

00;18;38;04 - 00;19;02;02

Esteban Gast

There's a—the movement can be so big to invite people who aren't necessarily experts in climate to just be that bridge, right? To hold attention to get people laughing and then introduce the climate scientists. So I last year at Climate Week, we worked with this organization called Probable Futures, which is like climate scientists and climate predictions.

 

00;19;02;02 - 00;19;21;07

Esteban Gast

They're amazing. They're really, they like work with governments for projections. So even, it's so funny, because even the governments, where the governors are like, what is this climate change? You know, they're hiring them and being like, okay, I'm understanding that sea level will rise in this way. And, you know, which is all sort of dark and insidious.

 

00;19;21;13 - 00;19;42;00

Esteban Gast

But anyway, I mean, they couldn't be more technically proficient in their work. And we actually partnered with them. So they did a presentation, myself and this comedian named Pratima, who actually writes for the late Show with Colbert. Her and I did like a breaking down on stage of what they were talking about. Right. So we almost like, translated what they were saying and asked them funny questions.

 

00;19;42;06 - 00;20;01;12

Esteban Gast

And it was really impressive and fun and people learned a ton and we brought the climate people who they were like, oh, that's funny. These are funny metaphors to think about this. These are ways I can talk about it with non-climate people. And then we brought comedy people who had never seen this presentation before and were like, oh my goodness.

 

00;20;01;12 - 00;20;26;20

Esteban Gast

And it was, it was really beautiful because it's sort of anti-hype right. They were climate people, sorry non-climate people came in and they were like, oh okay. So the world is an ending. The world is changing and we can adapt to it. Which I was like, if that's just your takeaway, that's huge. Because now you're not paralyzed by fear and you're saying, okay, well I can have kids or, or whatever.

 

00;20;26;21 - 00;20;43;09

Esteban Gast

Some of these positions that I think sometimes people are like, everything's good, you know. I live in California and it's scary. And I know there will be more fires. I know there will be larger droughts. And I also know that we can adapt to that. Humans can adapt to that.

 

00;20;43;09 - 00;20;56;13

Esteban Gast

And it is not worth giving up the fight and, which I think sometimes if you just read headlines, it's easy to feel like I'm just going to give up the fight. So yeah. So that's an example. So that means people are like, how do I do this? And I'm like, sure I can if you want.

 

00;20;56;13 - 00;21;13;26

Esteban Gast

We can talk about public speaking. But what I would recommend is bringing artists who are really good at their art and pairing up with them. Maybe they open up for, you know. Let's put people where they're best. And a climate scientist doesn't need to be John Stewart.

 

00;21;13;29 - 00;21;29;24

Gerry Ellis, Host

But at the same time, they would never think twice about saying, well, no, we have to bring the science expert there and not try to like, no, I need to learn how to be that science expert. So it's just interesting that they might try to think, how can I make this funnier, you know?

 

00;21;29;25 - 00;21;41;25

Gerry Ellis, Host

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your stuff is not that hard. Being funny is not that hard. You know, my Aunt Mildred, she loves the jokes I tell. I mean, she always told me you were funny when I was a little kid so I could do this. This isn’t hard.

 

00;21;41;27 - 00;22;02;28

Esteban Gast

Totally. It's also kind of what we're talking, it's like the skill of being a, we're saying comedian and like sort of a standup comedian, is also so different. That's like, a good comedian is actually not going to be a good communicator to climate audiences, unless they have a lot of background, unless they have a particular viewpoint.

 

00;22;03;02 - 00;22;18;28

Esteban Gast

So it's also a funny thing. Yeah. Where I'm like, well, you don't want to do that, right? Like I'm part of the part of the what makes it funny is that it is different. It's a contrast. It's irreverent. It's, you know, like Jon Stewart's there kind of smirking and kind of be like, you know, can kind of ask funny questions.

 

00;22;18;28 - 00;22;39;08

Esteban Gast

Can appear to be can like, appear to be dumb. Right. That's a really good tool. They'd be like, I'm the village idiot. Someone explain it to me. And if climate scientists were like, you know what? We're just, hey, I'm out here. I'm figuring it out. Just like you. I'd be like, no, you tell me. You have the degree.

 

00;22;39;08 - 00;22;54;11

Esteban Gast

What do you mean? Where I can go up there and be like, hey, I don't I don't know, I'm figuring it out. And I can sort of process, like, I'm almost like a surrogate for the audience processing the information in real time, where experts need to be experts. Yeah. So it's a fun thing to be like, what role should everyone?

 

00;22;54;15 - 00;23;14;00

Esteban Gast

It's such a good comedy example, which is which part of me is like, someone wants to do comedy. I'm like, do that. And then I have one of the climate scientists stay and give their spiel, hey, we like the audience is in. There hooked. It's different. We made the point. Now you have earned 30 minutes where the audience really likes you and trust you.

 

00;23;14;05 - 00;23;15;18

Esteban Gast

Take it away, climate scientist.

 

00;23;15;21 - 00;23;32;17

Gerry Ellis, Host

Do you ever have, like when you're working with a client and even if a client's a comedy client, like, you know, it is a Daily Show or Colbert somebody, do you have to translate for them? That hey, we need to set this up differently. You know, we can't just walk into it.

 

00;23;32;23 - 00;23;57;23

Esteban Gast

I think with people like that, they're more hesitant to put in facts. They understand the rhythm of performance. John Oliver, the way that his team works is they actually label laughs and then serious moments with different colors. They put up the picture like a wall and they put up the script and then you see the colors and then, let's say green is laugh and red is serious moment.

 

00;23;58;00 - 00;24;16;19

Esteban Gast

They don't have two red things in a row. Right. And they and you're sort of looking like green, green red green green green red green red you know like and if you notice that there's a, there's a tension, there's building tension and releasing tension. There may be a bit more like, do we need that fact? What if we put one fact?

 

00;24;16;21 - 00;24;27;09

Esteban Gast

I don't want to bum the people out. They're maybe a little nervous of too much info. If you say be funny. But in 30s or less, that's–I don't know if we're setting them up for success.

 

00;24;27;09 - 00;24;33;19

Gerry Ellis, Host

How do we balance this? Because a balance isn't 50/50. Yeah, a balance could be 10/90.

 

00;24;33;21 - 00;24;35;27

Esteban Gast

Can I tell you my dream?

 

00;24;35;29 - 00;24;36;09

Gerry Ellis, Host

Go for it.

 

00;24;36;09 - 00;25;02;00

Esteban Gast

I just tell you an unrelated, last night I had a dream. Intruders come in, I go, hey, get out of here. No. But I think there is a scarcity mindset that is like, if anything breaks through, it needs to do everything. Like, if we have people connect with nature in some significant way.

 

00;25;02;03 - 00;25;23;06

Esteban Gast

Oh my gosh, they have to do this, you know, blank thing. And I think one of the things, I swear this will relate, but sometimes—and I mentioned I'm Latino for the people listening. Hola, como estás. And I think one of the things sometimes in Hollywood, they uplift one Latin American story, right.

 

00;25;23;06 - 00;25;38;20

Esteban Gast

And then there's a lot of criticism. So like a few years ago, there was the movie In the Heights from Lin-Manuel Miranda, and there was a lot of criticism. And people were like, are they putting enough of this story line? They didn't do this. How were the, they gave too many tickets away because they were giving tickets away to for like in the community which.

 

00;25;38;22 - 00;26;08;14

Esteban Gast

But they're like, that's hurting the box office. Is it, you know, Lin-Manuel is Puerto Rican but Latin America outside of Puerto Rico has, you know, almost a billion people, 800 million people. Puerto Rico, it's 3 million. Why? What? Where's the—And everyone is heaping criticism. And I think that's what happens when only one rises up or when it is perceived like one rises up, or when, frankly, there are structural systems that allow one to rise up.

 

00;26;08;16 - 00;26;37;04

Esteban Gast

So part of me, the dream is yeah, do whatever it like—if that gets someone thinking and then they watch Planet Earth and then they watch Our Planet and like, if that is the first time that someone has thought, oh my goodness, animals are brilliant and they're interesting and they're complex. Am I going to think about my relationship with the natural world differently? Part of me is like we have to think abundantly in that way.

 

00;26;37;04 - 00;26;56;00

Esteban Gast

And I think that’s the dream because I feel that too. And we have to be like, great, hey, do next year, do three more in a few years. I would love there to be, you know, 25 movies and some are heavy handed and some mention it and some don't even mention it. Some are, you know, a couple and they're driving up to see something.

 

00;26;56;00 - 00;27;16;21

Esteban Gast

They go, oh my gosh, there's mudslides. Man, is that there just because the native plants aren't there. That's because the trees are gone, all right. We're going to need to reroute. And you're like, oh, mudslides are because we've uprooted native plants and trees. So I think that's a little bit. I totally understand that

 

00;27;16;21 - 00;27;33;10

Esteban Gast

And I feel that. And when I feel that instinct, I'm like, don't come—this is where I'm like very LA. —and I go, scarcity. Don't come from a place of abundance. This is where everyone listening is like, oh, I get it. He lives on the West Coast. I've been to a drum circle or two.

 

00;27;33;12 - 00;27;54;08

Esteban Gast

Yeah, but I actually think that's huge because I worry about that. The pressure. The least I've ever written is when I feel the pressure to represent an entire community. If that is Colombians, that is Latinos, if that is climate people. Because I'm not finishing that script. Can you  imagine, you know. Even if someone goes, let's make this.

 

00;27;54;08 - 00;28;15;20

Esteban Gast

And I go, oh, this is going to—everyone's going to be pissed because I didn't mention blank. Because they're not driving an EV. And I think as a climate community, I think there needs to be a little bit of grace for people to do that. It’s like, there's no one shot, there's no epiphany moment.

 

00;28;15;20 - 00;28;36;25

Esteban Gast

Not one movie is going to shift everyone. We need hundreds of movies, hundreds of TV shows, hundreds of comedians constantly talking about. There's no epiphany moment. Our life is not a movie where everyone goes, oh, you know what? I watched this thing. You know, it's like I remember watching Inconvenient Truth. It was amazing.

 

00;28;36;25 - 00;28;51;24

Esteban Gast

It activated me. It activated a couple million people. I'm very grateful for that. That was amazing. It was consequential. A couple million people are more civically engaged. What a win. You know, I'm like, great, okay, let's do that every few years.

 

00;28;51;24 - 00;29;18;05

Gerry Ellis, Host

Well, and the circle got bigger too, because there were people who watched it, wanted to be engaged and found vehicles to be engaged. Whether it was start volunteering for an NGO that just focused on climate change or starting to, you know, in some way they joined. And he brought that up around My Octopus Teacher and saying that, yeah, they didn't do it, but somebody started a little nonprofit to help save the ocean and octopus kind of thing, you know?

 

00;29;18;06 - 00;29;35;02

Gerry Ellis, Host

Yeah. And he said, now you've increased the circle and this is what we're all after in doing this work? Yeah, we can say all of this, but it's one voice yelling into the wilderness. And if other people are going, okay, I get it. And I want to say this about it now you're part of the circle. Yeah.

 

00;29;35;02 - 00;29;55;15

Esteban Gast

Also, if we if we want everyone to be invited, I think we have to mean that, which means everyone is invited. Which means people who might just cursory be like, oh, that's interesting. I'll think next time I go, I'm not going to shift much, but next time I won't actually order whatever octopus. That's it. That's actually, there now in the climate movement, right?

 

00;29;55;17 - 00;30;24;23

Esteban Gast

They're like respecting the world around them in a totally different way with intentionality and thoughtfulness. Like, that’s it, I think. Yeah, I think it's like my goal is that as many people are involved in this, the gift, the absolute gift of climate is that it touches everything. So that means that someone loves working on cars and they want to make their car, you know, their gas-guzzling car go to 300,000 miles before they… I'm like, great, that’s amazing.

 

00;30;24;23 - 00;30;45;29

Esteban Gast

I don't need to tell you drive an EV. You know, I drive an EV. I'm very happy with it. In LA, it's amazing. I just drive, you know. And I think that's a wonderful way that the world is moving. And yeah, if you're a mechanic helping make cars last longer. Incredible. Why would I say that you're doing it wrong?

 

00;30;46;01 - 00;31;08;15

Esteban Gast

We just want people in to be more thoughtful about, you know, the world around them, the way that they treat others, the way that they treat the natural world, the way that they treat the stuff around us. You know, like if you're making stuff last and last long, brilliant. Brilliant. You're not buying, if you're buying, you know, vintage clothes because you think it looks good, you're not even connecting that to a climate message.

 

00;31;08;18 - 00;31;30;12

Esteban Gast

Brilliant. You're inviting you don't you don't you don't even know you're invited. You don't even know you're in the movement. But you are, baby. Welcome. You know? And I think that's a little bit of what I think is good. And I think some of the comedians that we work with and some of the, you know, comedy, it's like, of course they're imperfect ambassadors. Isn't that kind of a point?

 

00;31;30;12 - 00;31;34;10

Esteban Gast

Is that how you build a movement? I didn't know we needed, you know, purity tests.

 

00;31;34;12 - 00;31;39;01

Gerry Ellis, Host

You didn't get the lapel pin. Yeah. That says you're an official ambassador.

 

00;31;39;02 - 00;31;41;08

Esteban Gast

You haven't signed the paperwork.

 

00;31;41;11 - 00;31;42;17

Gerry Ellis, Host

Yeah. Yeah.

 

00;31;42;17 - 00;32;08;23

Esteban Gast

So I think I think that's one of, the when we talk about the world we want, I think it's like a genuine invitation, which is a challenging. It's challenging to genuinely invite everyone into it. Right? Especially people who disagree with us or look at it a different way or care, like the outcomes are helpful, but the intentions are not right in that certain way.

 

00;32;08;25 - 00;32;09;19

Esteban Gast

But I'm like, I don't know if…

 

00;32;09;19 - 00;32;27;16

Gerry Ellis, Host

Well, I think in so many times that we set it up for there is a right way to do it–my way. And then there's whatever other ways. And those are because this is the right way. There's got to be the wrong ways. Right. And that excludes all those people. Who is the mechanic who's just trying to make the car go further?

 

00;32;27;16 - 00;32;46;07

Esteban Gast

Totally. And there's so many brilliant–Generation 180, that organization I work with a bunch in the Climate Cultura and Climate Comedy Cohort and everything, but they do this program where they put solar panels on schools. It's brilliant. And then like often the energy cost goes down, teachers actually get more money and then science lessons and stuff like that around this.

 

00;32;46;07 - 00;33;05;12

Esteban Gast

So I mean, it's a beautiful 360 approach. And I love like they've gone to so many unexpected places because people be like, oh, we can, you know, exist in our own little microgrid. Oh, this means teachers got paid more. Oh, whatever the thing. Right? And I think they do such a good job framing that as they're like, hey, listen.

 

00;33;05;15 - 00;33;38;04

Esteban Gast

This is you can save money. Hey, you can be on your own independent. Isn't that cool? You know, for individualism. You got your schools, your own power. Yeah. Amazing. Whatever the pitch is that maybe people resonate with. Tell them what you're saying. You're like, okay, if at the end of the result, that means that a school, that–a lot of these places in Santa Barbara action in California, this happened when the schools with Generation 180 that worked–with put solar, then there were wildfires and power went out and the school was that everyone gathered at the school because the school was one of the few places that had power.

 

00;33;38;11 - 00;34;07;10

Esteban Gast

Right. And they had these new, beautiful, efficient solar panels that were. Yeah. And you're like, cool, okay, we can frame this as a climate thing, or we can be like, hey, do you want a really resilient community center that is your school? Do you want it to be totally energy independent? Oh, you do? Great. I don't care if you don't connect this to a certain party, you know, like at a certain point, great.

 

00;34;07;10 - 00;34;27;08

Esteban Gast

That's progress. This is step one. This is great. This person is now, those children are learning about solar panels. You know, like, that's brilliant. So I think I think there's a the way that movements are made is through a bunch of imperfect ambassadors and imperfect choices that all, you know, sort of guide in one general direction.

 

00;34;27;15 - 00;34;41;17

Esteban Gast

That general direction is, you know, towards goodness towards each other and goodness towards the earth. All right. Great. I think we need all hands on deck and all strategies on deck. I think we need everything on deck.

 

00;34;41;20 - 00;35;04;02

Gerry Ellis, Host

Have you ever had a comedy club, well I assume they know why you're coming in and what you're going to do your gig, but have you ever had a comedy club owner that said, Yeah, I'm not really sure that's right for the crowd. You did your set, you got on stage, you did your stage bit and then afterwards, kind of went, you know?

 

00;35;04;05 - 00;35;21;22

Esteban Gast

I think in a room I can usually feel if they are not feeling it. And I will pivot, and I'll pivot to things that are far away from climate or, you know, whatever social issues. So I think sometimes, yes, I think people have been like, that was not the room for that.

 

00;35;21;24 - 00;35;43;15

Esteban Gast

I did a show in in central Illinois, in Mason city, Illinois. It was actually a Climate Comedy Cohort show, but we did not tell them that. We said, hey, do you want to see comedians from Netflix and Comedy Central and NBC? And do you want to see writers for Late Night and come to the show. You know, because I just don't think people–we don't want to reach the audience that would go to a climate comedy show.

 

00;35;43;16 - 00;36;09;15

Esteban Gast

Right? Like that's the kind of the whole point. So we go, hey, these comedians have been on TV, they're great. Some of them are, you know, fairly famous, come and watch. So it was like six comedians. I'm hosting. And every comedian has, whatever, ten minutes, right, or 15 minutes at 75 minute show. And first comedian. I think I host and I do like a little bit and it goes iffy.

 

00;36;09;15 - 00;36;30;28

Esteban Gast

But the hosts sometimes you're warming the crowd up, right. So you can't—the first comedian is like doing material, then goes into like a climate joke and everyone tightens up. And then second comedian goes and then, does a climate joke, everyone tightens up and I text other comedians, I'm like, just don't. Don't. By the second comedian, people were looking around, and then we have video.

 

00;36;30;28 - 00;36;49;08

Esteban Gast

We filmed this because we wanted to maybe make a documentary or something like that. So our filmmaker was outside interviewing the people who are in the show. And it was, I mean, it was true. That people are like, yeah, they're really funny. A few times they're bringing up some of some of that, I don't know, global warming or whatever.

 

00;36;49;08 - 00;37;11;08

Esteban Gast

And I was like, not, no, not here. I don't know what it's like. I mean, they were just, they were so aware that we had this agenda. This was a thing where we, like, were literally on the climate comedy tour. So it's so funny and I'm, you know, helping run the program. I'm texting everyone like, no, no, abort! No, no one do climate, everyone.

 

00;37;11;11 - 00;37;23;23

Esteban Gast

So I think there's so many situations, like especially a lot of times in a comedy show, if I'm doing 45 minutes, I can weave in and out and I go, okay, great, I'll just do two minutes of it. I won't do anything else right? Or I'll be like, oh, they actually like this.

 

00;37;23;23 - 00;37;42;04

Esteban Gast

I'll do 15, 20 minutes of it. Or if there's like six comedians, one person can be more political and the next person is not right. Like, if you think of your life, if you're putting together a comedy show, you have different styles, different thing, one person's political, one person's one liners, one person's deadpan, one person's high energy, you know, whatever the thing.

 

00;37;42;06 - 00;37;49;05

Esteban Gast

So if you're an audience member and you're like, was that the third person? And you know what's so funny?

 

00;37;49;05 - 00;37;54;29

Gerry Ellis, Host

Because you've got the menu, you're going, yeah, the third person is seriously going to slam on this. 

 

00;37;55;02 - 00;38;19;22

Esteban Gast

And you're like surely the next person— the next person also talked about climate? It's so funny is part of the reason we're doing that—Part of our funding came from folks who wanted to talk about the Inflation Reduction Act. Right and how it was incredible. You know, all this, one of the biggest clean energy investments and environmental bill, you know, since the Clean Air and Water Act, all that good stuff.

 

00;38;19;25 - 00;38;38;25

Esteban Gast

So people had that's what really gave it away. So the first comedians, you know, doing fun jokes with like Inflation Reduction Act. It's actually in that so funny that we had to name it the Inflation Reduction Act. You know, like in the past it could be Clean Air. And people are like that's good, you know. And then here you're like inflation reduction—you're like, should we do a clean air.

 

00;38;38;25 - 00;38;53;23

Esteban Gast

And people like no. And you're like, should eggs cost less? And they're like, yes. And you're like, and should we also save the climate, or whatever? Right. And the second person was like, you guys, you know, the first guy was talking about Inflation Reduction Act. Yeah. Isn't that wild, like this thing?

 

00;38;53;23 - 00;39;14;24

Esteban Gast

And people are like, wait a minute. We were like name-checking a specific bill. And everyone was like, this is too great of a coincidence that multiple comedians are like, hey, let me talk to you about the Inflation Reduction Act. And had like some people even had facts, right? They're like, yeah, you know, is whatever 800 billion for this, 

 

00;39;14;24 - 00;39;38;01

Esteban Gast

Isn’t that wild? Isn’t that interesting? And people are like, you know that it's 800—I'm getting the numbers wrong—but you know, we were like, how it why would you know that? You haven't named any other fact in your entire show. And all of a sudden you're saying, oh, it's 1.7 trillion and it was signed by President Joseph R. Biden, you know? And people are like, all right, get out of here.

 

00;39;38;03 - 00;40;02;23

Esteban Gast

So yeah, that happens. That happens if you're not too careful. That was a lesson learned. We had other shows that tour and we were like, great. All six of us can't do climate jokes let’s switch off 3 do, 3 don’t. And if you have to like, we have to bounce because then, you know, what happens is they like the show, they follow you on Instagram, they see what you're posting on Instagram, they see some of your views.

 

00;40;02;25 - 00;40;23;09

Esteban Gast

It's the long game. It's a little bit of you just have to play that. It's a little bit of a scarcity. If I'm talking to the good people of Peoria, Illinois, one time, one night, I can't be like, by the way, everyone, please, please, please act. I go, hey, what a great show. Oh my gosh, you guys, I've got a newsletter.

 

00;40;23;09 - 00;40;46;12

Esteban Gast

I'll tell you what's happening up in my life. Sometimes I'll tell you about an article that really moved me or a documentary I watched that I loved. Sign up. They go, oh, okay. Yeah. I also think going back to Don't Look Up and Adam, I think one of the things that he captured was climate scientists are rarely on TV, and when they are right, it's like the it's like you've been silenced for years and they go, hey, in two minutes.

 

00;40;46;12 - 00;41;05;09

Esteban Gast

And you kind of are like, the world, everyone please. That makes sense. You've been put into that position, right? I think it's a fault of a system that lifts, you know, one voice at a time or goes, what is the biggest version of this? 

 

00;41;05;09 - 00;41;25;10

Esteban Gast

What's the most sensationalist? What's the most, you know, what's the like shiniest object as opposed to what are what do people need to know? The news is like looking around and being like, that is the shiniest thing. And then they hold it right there like just a toddler, and then they go, wait a minute, that's more shiny.

 

00;41;25;10 - 00;41;34;11

Esteban Gast

And then they just drop and you're like, wait, what? You're saying? You're like, wait and wait—Ukraine is still—wait, Gaza is over a year—you know, but they go, but

 

00;41;34;11 - 00;41;35;07

Gerry Ellis, Host

Look—the

 

00;41;35;07 - 00; 41;42;28

Esteban Gast

Election, let's talk about it for what we could summarize in 90s for four day wait, a new thing

 

00;41;42;28 - 00;42;31;19

Esteban Gast

You know, J.Lo is getting divorced in the new year. It's a new shiny object. And you're like, I like, understand that, right? I mean, we're talking about the climate movement, people, you know, largely silent, fake and rational and all these things also doing a similar thing where they're just like, oh my gosh, what this breakthrough, the only way to break through is, is ironically, to, to like, view and exist in a world, and create a world where you have like, abundance of, climate stories and storytelling and climate communicators and climate advocates and climate ambassadors, you know, scientists and educators and imperfect and flawed and people who maybe don't know

 

00;42;31;19 - 00;42;37;28

Esteban Gast

that much but are trying. And everyone is just talking about it in every way that they can.

 

00;42;38;00 - 00;42;52;19

Gerry Ellis, Host

Before I let you go, what's the audience you want, both as a comedian and a climate change person? Like if you're, that moment that you would, you would just go, oh damn, I nailed this one. I really they got it. Yeah.

 

00;42;52;20 - 00;43;11;06

Esteban Gast

I think, I think that they have that everyone has an ability to make change. I think hope is interesting. And I think if you look at a lot of, so many there are a lot of climate solutions, like, there is a lot of hope that is not talked about enough.

 

00;43;11;06 - 00;43;35;09

Esteban Gast

We talked about, everyone is invited. And I just really mean that, that everyone is invited and once they're in, they've got a role to play. They matter in this. And I think yeah, I think that they can make change, that they have agency to make change.

 

00;43;35;09 - 00;44;01;05

Esteban Gast

And it can look like a lot of different ways. I think if you're a baker, you can make bread—shout out bakers listening—but I think you can make bread in a way that it's really climate friendly. I think you can throw block parties and get to know your neighbors, you know, which all every research shows in the world shows that after a natural disaster, that's like one of the most critical things. Literally your life may depend on neighbors and in this world that we're sort of stepping into.

 

00;44;01;06 - 00;44;36;14

Esteban Gast

So it's like, yeah, I think throwing a block party and giving your neighbors muffins is an incredible climate action. So I just, I think the thing that I stay up at night about is like apathy or, this depressed acceptance that maybe this is the what, the how the world is. And I just think that that is—I mean, if we get really political, I think that's like intentional and manufactured, by, you know, the powers that be.

 

00;44;36;14 - 00;45;04;09

Esteban Gast

But I just I want people to wake up from that. So all I have this for is pretty simple is just a global awakening. I'm a simple man. Just everyone rise up into their full power. Recognize that we have the power this whole time. Yeah. I also think if we, more specifically, I'd love people to think about how it's systems and it's not individuals.

 

00;45;04;11 - 00;45;28;05

Esteban Gast

Right. And like how do we look at systems and reform systems. And yeah, I could talk about this for a while, but I would say that the big the big takeaway is truly is like everyone is invited and it's so—you're so important in this. Yeah. I think that's I think I was a comedian who didn't think about integrating climate.

 

00;45;28;05 - 00;45;52;18

Esteban Gast

And I integrated it and everything in my life made much more sense. And I wish that for other people. Literally anything you are doing, if you enjoy pottery, if you are, you know, like if you are anything, if you're at home with your kids, like every everything has such a climate lens. That's the greatest gift that we've been given, is that the defining issue of our time touches every single aspect of our life.

 

00;45;52;20 - 00;46;01;22

Esteban Gast

So you don't have to, like, go back to school to, you know, stand up for a better future and create a better future.

 

00;46;01;25 - 00;46;07;04

Gerry Ellis, Host

Esteban. Thanks for being here. This was great fun.

 

00;46;07;07 - 00;46;11;17

Esteban Gast

Thank you. This was, like, a four hour conversation. We did it.

 

00;46;11;18 - 00;46;16;03

Gerry Ellis, Host

We. Yeah, we did it. We squeezed it all in in like three hours and 42 minutes.

 

00;46;16;03 - 00;46;21;22

Esteban Gast

Three hours 42 minutes. This will be good and I hope released in like 0.25 speed, just so it’s a full­–

 

00;46;21;23 - 00;46;24;22

Gerry Ellis, Host

Yeah.

 

00;46;24;24 - 00;46;30;20

Esteban Gast

People should savor in it, like a good broth. I've always thought this would end up very broth-like.

 

00;46;30;24 - 00;46;32;23

Gerry Ellis, Host

That's how I saw you.

 

00;46;32;23 - 00;46;34;06

Esteban Gast

We have to cut this.

 

00;46;34;06 - 00;46;36;21

Gerry Ellis, Host

Okay. We're gone. Yeah, we're out of here. Okay.

 

00;46;36;21 - 00;46;44;23

Esteban Gast

Thank you so much. This was so great. Thank you, thank you. Everyone is cheering.

 

00;46;44;26 - 00;47;20;19

Gerry Ellis, Host

I want to thank Esteban for sharing his laughter and his intelligence and compassion. Helping us explore humor is a powerful tool for building bridges between us. You can find out more about Esteban's work and explore resources on creative thinking and climate communication for educators by visiting our website at NAAEE dot org forward slash podcast. That's naaee.org/podcast. As you just heard, environmental education is as multifaceted as the diversity of guests on our podcast.

 

00;47;20;21 - 00;48;04;20

Gerry Ellis, Host

To explore every element, subscribe to The World We Want: The NAAEE Podcast. There's a link on our website or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. We would love to hear what you think. So email us at podcast@naaee.org. The World We Want podcast is a production of NAAEE, the North American Association for Environmental Education. A special thanks to our entire team Carrie Albright, Judy Braus, Jimena Cuenca, and Stacie Pierpoint, with additional production support from nonprofit GLOBIO and a special thanks to you for being a part of the world we want.

 

00;48;04;22 - 00;48;33;24

Gerry Ellis, Host

We hope these conversations lead you to take action in your own world every day, making it more and more the world we all want. I'm your host, Gerry Ellis. Join us next time to hear more stories of individuals and communities creating a better future through the power of education. Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing The World We Want: The NAAEE Podcast.